Judge unseals documents in anthrax probe

As far as the government is concerned it puts it to rest. There are probably more unanswered questions than answered questions. How convenient for the government.

Yeah, I'm with you kram-408948... the supposed therapist in question was probably a well paid Government appointed therapist if any.

Having known Bruce for nearly 40 years, I refuse to believe that he would do what the press and the FBI accuse him of doing. As graduate students we worked, often side by side, in the laboratories of our mentor. Later in our careers, we managed to keep in touch with each other often lunching and socializing at national scientific meetings. My wife and I refuse to believe that he would harm, much less hurt anyone. I've racked my brain over the past weekend trying to figure out what possible motive he could have had. Where is the evidence? Where's the DNA from the envelopes? Where are the fingerprints? After all these month's why has it been so difficult to match handwriting samples with his? The person that this therapist/social worker describes is certainly not the Bruce that I knew. Someone needs to question her motives, aside from seeking her 15-minutes of fame. Without going into detail, all the crap about Princeton and his obsession with KKG, at least in my mind, borders on sublime frabication.

We will have to see how it plays out but if the FBI doesn't show the proof I will never believe it. Especially, as they didn't get it right the first time.

Hockey Fan:
My condolences on the loss of your friend Dr. Ivins.
One has to wonder, however, why he would choose suicide if he knew he was innocent of the charges about to be brought against him.
CB

Could it be that it was not suicide? Could it be that it is just another government lie and cover up? With this administration anything is possible...

Cat Bear: Aside from what I perceive as "the lack of a clear motive", the subject of suicide was something I wished to avoid. While in graduate school at UC, Bruce and I often discussed religion as both of us were raised in the Roman Catholic faith. From a personal standpoint, I have a difficult time envisioning/resolving why anyone would take their own life. All I can say is that we all perhaps have different breaking points of no return.

Believe NOTHING this government says! NOTHING! They had the invasion of Iraq planned BEFORE Bush even took office! They have been lying since day one, have not stopped yet, and don't expect them to stop lying - EVER! Honesty would NOT be in their best interests, and that's putting it mildly! And their best interests do NOT equal ours.

I get the impression that the FBI learned a lesson with Hatfield. They picked a patsy and he fought back. Guess they won't have that problem with Ivins. Again, his death was too convenient.

I'm surprised they didn't try to pin it on Iran.

People here and there seem to imply that they think he's innocent. This thread implies that he was framed.

Why frame him? Seriously. He's not a usual suspect. He's not a member of any group that experiences persecution... except maybe the nerds :) I can't imagine it would be so hard to find a scapegoat that you'd choose that guy.

You don't have to be part of an organization, or be "the usual suspect" to be made a patsy of. (look at Richard Jewel)

Believe NOTHING this government says! NOTHING! They had the invasion of Iraq planned BEFORE Bush even took office! They have been lying since day one, have not stopped yet, and don't expect them to stop lying - EVER! Honesty would NOT be in their best interests, and that's putting it mildly! And their best interests do NOT equal ours.

(look at Richard Jewel)

Well point well taken but at the same time, though, (and i hate to be the guy that points out the pink elephant in the room) but it was post 9/11 and if the government wanted us to hate Arab Muslims so much, why not just frame one of them?

Huh? didn't they frame them for 9/11; the Arab Islamic Extremist I mean?? I mean, not that certain Arabic people weren't involved to execute the mission, but who were the key players? Who stood to gain the most? (not to mention who supplied Bin Laden himself with money, weapons, and training) I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to... The Richard Jewel comparison?? If so, his case was pre-9/11, the Olympic Park Bombing in Atlanta happened in the summer of 1996. Their main objective in his case (R.Jewel) was to show the world (since the entire world watches and participates in those games) that our government was competent enough to catch the bad guy within hours of the incident, so that all the thousands of people in Atlanta from all over the world visiting, and so all those millions watching would think that the threat was gone, and there was nothing more to worry over. So, they pinned it on an innocent man. At that time, the world wasn't 100% as divided as we've now become. Bill Clinton was president then, the Gulf War over, and in America the hurtful and wrong Arab-stereo-type of all of them being Islamic Extremists was muted compared to how it is now post-9/11. My point with the Richard Jewel thing was to remind everyone that the FBI will in fact pin it on the wrong guy to accomplish their goal, and no one is exempt from that.

The best propaganda is just a slight twist on the truth. I suspect everything about him is true except for a few key inventions, such as the therapist's story and the supposed suicide.

Our govewrnment is scary

Believe NOTHING this government says! NOTHING! They had the invasion of Iraq planned BEFORE Bush even took office! They have been lying since day one, have not stopped yet, and don't expect them to stop lying - EVER! Honesty would NOT be in their best interests, and that's putting it mildly! And their best interests do NOT equal ours.

Look, I was still fairly young when 9/11 happened and it scared me. But what scared the $h!t out of me was what followed. Everything got very very weird after 9/11 happened and it hasn't really gotten any better since. We're just getting used to it.. The conspiracies, the theories, even what we're told is 'known' relies on evidence that someone else swears can be debunked. THere are so many levels to 9/11 that no one person could ever truly be an expert on every inch of the subject, from physics to engineering, to sociology and psychology and criminology and comparitive religious studies... this damn thing drills down infinitely and for someone who spent impresionable years hearing all the theories in the calendar, it's too weird for me to even let myself think about.

I did hear one theory I particularly like though. The conspiracies against the USA are, in themselves, conspiracies, cooked up by the American government to make people think they're actually capable of coming up with such an evil master plan. At the very least, it's an entertaining thought ^_^

Your government has been killing people all around the globe by the millions! Is that entertaining enough for you?

guywithbrain, it's not my government. I am not American.

This poor fellow was so loose in the head his own shrink did not want to be near him. How could he be permitted to continue to work with such dangerous material. He must have been delusional because he had to know the strain he was working with had to have a footprint in it. Its sad because he told his coworkers he was delusional and nobody evidently passed this information on to higher authorities or they dismissed it if they did. My opinion you have to be a little loose in the head to work with this stuff day in and day out anyway. On the question of why the White House did not release the information sooner there are two explanations. One is the FBI asked them not to for obvious reasons and two this terror thing was right up the white houses alley keeping us scared.

My question is why would anybody believe the goverment coverup story. GET REAL, anybodyy working in a secret AMthrax lab would be tested, retested and watched all the time for any kind of mental imbalance. THey do all kinds of readical background checks on just DEA and FBI agents.

"our government" found a patsy to pin the murders on now he's gone so who will know. My condolences to the Ivin family. As well as the families of the Anthrax killings. The man was accused of 5 murders, hell he should have pled guilty, could have bargained and got a couple years court supervision. Unless he had some pot in his pocket when they picked him up, that could have meant hard time the way our court system works.

bigD, do you know anything about government bureaucracy?, once your in, it's almost impossible to get rid of you.

I agree Vanna....its easy to blame the dead man. Case closed, problem solved. The Justice Dept. can wipe their hands clean and start patting themselves on the back...I don't believe it for a second!

You're on the right track, unfortunately it seems apparent that for many cases, this one included, the real culprit is in fact members of our government.

The rule of thumb here - believe NOTHING this government says! NOTHING!

speaking of JFK. Check out St John Hunt's new book. Apparently he got a confession from his dad yes E. Howard Hunt

Big Brother and Big Business knows what is best for us, so they tell us.

Big brother and big business represent two opposing systems. Big Brother was the leader of a fictional communist dystopia and Big Business relies on outsourcing and raw, free-market capitalism. If they worked together, the universe would collapse in on itself from the weight of the paradox! 0_o

Repair:
Methinks your tinfoil hat is a bit too tight...

Yes big business is the daddy to big brother. And daddy provides big brother with an allowance. Hence big brother will do whatever daddy wants him to do. Bottom line - big money corrupts big brother.

exactly! ~ so glad that there are other people who see it the same way. It means there is a glimmer of hope for the common people. It means some of us have our eyes open. The real patriots are the ones who question their crooked governments. - As a woman, as much as I would love to have a child, I'm far too concerned about the direction our world is headed in to bring another person into it. But maybe if enough people keep on point and question wrong regardless of ridicule we can begin to reverse their attempts at an all-powerful, all-controlling, one-world government.

I think the FBI could have murdered him.

Yeah, I don't think that's much of a stretch myself. Just look at some of the other people who have died over the years at the hands of CIA, and FBI. JFK, MLKjr., Black Panther Party leaders, Chavez, etc etc etc. Yeah, I never exhumed his body personally, and I'm one of those that if I don't see it myself, and if it seems fishy, than I don't believe it.... at least never 100%. But even if they didn't physically pull the trigger, (or in his case, put the drugs in his mouth), they still drove him to it, so they are still guilty for his death. Harrassment by our government can be pretty unbearable. Just look at the way they treated MLK Jr. before his murder. They made death threats, attempt on his life, called his home harrassing his family and friends, taking him to jail constantly, telling his wife he was cheating on her, mailing her photographs of MLK with other women (at places he was never present), all kinds of things, until he was actually killed. Luckily for him he was an exceptionally strong minded individual, as was MLK's family, otherwise they may not have accomplished as much as they did. Unfortunately for Ivins, he was the newest witchhunt patsy for their purposes.

Yeah, ...not to mention the fact that when the video from 9/11 is played back, you can CLEARLY see tiny explosives going on just as the building is collapsing, and they collapse in the EXACT same way as every planned demolition in history. And to top it off, somehow our government can't get military to the scene of the crime in time to stop the second plane from hitting 20 mintues later?! Yeah, weird. The official story: they were doing a pretend, test mission kind of deal at the time, and didn't think the explosion and gaping hole in the first world trade center was real... it was just part of the scenario for the test mission... something like that, their story never made any sense.
And to put the icing on the cake, BUILDING 7... where do I begin?! Again, a perfectly planned demolition. The owner of the building even accidentally admitted to "pulling" the building later in a taped interview. There were a lot of important files stored inside. The building, also with a steel structure, was not hit by a plane, had no major fires inside, and had minor structural damage done after the two planes hit the other towers. And yet, somehow, it mysteriously fell, perfectly, and precisely straight down. The same way the old casinos did in Vegas.
Building 7 is important because if the demolition, or "pull" of it was preplanned (it takes some time and preparation to set up the explosives for a "pull"- more than a few hours!) that proves that September 11th was in fact an inside job. It proves it. Just think it over in your minds. There was no reason for that building to have fallen, and it doesn't take rocket science to disprove the government story of how it all happened and get to the truth. If anyone has any questions as to what happened with Building 7, and 9/11, just do some research, just a little will get you the answers you're looking for. View the video from that day again, and pay close attention, and decide for yourselves. I know it's hard for some of you to see the truth, because it's frightening, and sad, and I know because I have small-town, republican, conservative parents, whom I love, that just don't want to believe that our leaders, or president, our FBI, our military could be responsible for this. They just want to live their lives happily, freely, and calmly. That's all most of us want, but the truth is the truth, fact is fact, and guilty is guilty.

Believe NOTHING this government says! NOTHING! They had the invasion of Iraq planned BEFORE Bush even took office! They have been lying since day one, have not stopped yet, and don't expect them to stop lying - EVER! Honesty would NOT be in their best interests, and that's putting it mildly! And their best interests do NOT equal ours.

You will never see peace without radical change in this government. And you will never see radical change in this government because way too much money is involved. In that regard democrats = republicans. There is no real difference. Therefore, since there will be no radical change even if Obama is elected, there will be no peace. Not in our lifetime, unless this current empire does crumble to the ground.

As long as those in power value the almighty dollar more than they value human life, nothing will change.

Yes. Greed has been alive and well throughout the history of mankind.